Comments on: A simple question for Madoff watchers

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:06:05 +0000

just follow his money and his families accounts and assets first. He shared with his children, grandchildren, etc. Any thing bought, given away to family members etc. should be given back. He should have to live in a regular apt. and his 8 million dollar house should be taken too.

By: Anne Palmer, Tyler, TX

Anne Palmer, Tyler, TX — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:44:00 +0000

I still think there’s some money under his bed, maybe in a briefcase.

By: J.S., Los Angeles, CA

J.S., Los Angeles, CA — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:12:56 +0000

He never invested the money and if he did, it was probably in crap bonds. So the principal never appreciated and withdrawls made the principal amount drop further. Subtract out checks paid to family, co-workers, preferential charities, lavish living etc. and you still have some change left. The IRS will find it in a Swiss, but I’m betting its more likely in an undisclosed, Bahamian off-shore account. The key here is to watch the offspring of the cohorts and specifically Madoff’s family for the next 20 years. If there’s a statute of limitations, the prosecutors will lose, because Madoff took the shame and sacrifice to build a future empire as his family legacy. I have one question – how much money do you need to be happy? Freak…!

By: Keit, San Jose, CA

Keit, San Jose, CA — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:20:04 +0000

In a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, not all parties are victims in a financial way. The absolute victims are the greedy (100% re-invested) the richest (no need to withdraw) and the latecomers. I’ve suggested that some long-time investors might have made out like a bandit. They most certainly have withdrawn many times the money that they put in after so many years invested in the scheme. These are the long-time investors that Madoff approached initially. They are most certainly the closest sources of friendship and affection to Madoff that he knew would not be hurt by his scheme, at least from a financial basis.
Might it be possible that, in an absurd sense, Madoff had a certain motivation in this that is more than just for himelf? You know, the Robin Hood approach of taking away from the rich & undeserved and give it to the poor. It certainly would make him feel good, even proud of such deed. With a large ego and so much power, a distorted sense of purpose usually prevails. Hitler, Jim Jones and the recent masters of the universe are some excellent examples. Hopefully, Madoff will write a book about all of this to tell us of his motive(s) and make millions in the process. In the end, unwittingly or not, we are all conspirators and victims at the same time. History will repeat itself. That much is certain in the money world.

By: Orlando, Habana Cuba

Orlando, Habana Cuba — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:19:49 +0000

I am a Cuban witch doctor (santero priest) I can help with this all, call me on my private line….nahh just send me your money! I´ll put a spell on Bernie!

By: Leeroy

Leeroy — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:29:20 +0000

OK, Anne Palmer, I simplified it a bit.

Bernie may have made about 8% a year or so. It’s an old Wall Street adage, “nobody beats the street”, and we must assume that Bernie wasn’t beating it either, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

So … Bernie credits his investors with 12% gains, makes, on average, 8% gains, and takes in a bunch of cash in fees off the top.

He goes on making 8% but losing 12%, and this works as long as he has more investors coming in … until the market tanks and too many investors want their principal back … at which point it becomes clear that the “gains” that were being paid out came from principal.

The point remains … much of this money consited of the fictitious gains being reported, so they were not really there to lose. I’m sure Bernie and his cohorts stashed some cash in offshore banks, but most of the “losses” were funny money that never existed in the first place.

By: Zen, Balikpapan, Indonesia

Zen, Balikpapan, Indonesia — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 22:52:02 +0000

Where? Lemme give you some clues: Madoff’s just a front pawn.

By: Charles BROOKLYN NEW YORK

Charles BROOKLYN NEW YORK — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:53:28 +0000

Madoff or (MAD OFF WITH THE MONEY ) Is modern day Hitler, what an attrocity he inflicted on vast amonunts of Jewish people, he should rot in hell. the federal government must step in who overseas the lack of diligent overseeing by the SEC and the negligence regarding the life savings of people and institutions throughout the U.S. Some of the readers might not have sympathy for the rich who lost to a sccam of unequalled pproportions ever in the U,S.however, the rich should seek out as the average lay person the most interest on their money. At this point all of us should go back to saving our money in our mattresses, or pillows because 2008 demonstrated how unsecure banks are and how vulnerable our life savings is to disappear before us. President Bush his cabinet and congress should go down in history as being the most ignorant elected officials in U.S history, the SEC should be held responsible for lack of scutiny when so much money is in the hands of a few, namely Madoff.

By: kumar, birganj, nepal

kumar, birganj, nepal — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:49:25 +0000

swiss banks ??? by any means.

By: Anne, Tyler, TX

Anne, Tyler, TX — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:32:19 +0000

I feel a little bit of sympathy for Madoff because he reminds me of a ferret I used to have. She would always drag stuff under my bed and hide things there. He looks just like her in the face. The ferret didn’t mean any harm, that was just what she liked to do. Maybe the money is under Madoff’s bed.

By: Keit, San Jose, CA

Keit, San Jose, CA — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:22:23 +0000

Just as someone who unknowingly bought stolen goods, by law he would have to return the goods to the rightful owners. Whether he can get his money back is an entirely different matter. We do not know yet how the fund will be recovered and distributed to its victims. With all the lawsuits from so many different victims, whatever little money that remains and can be recovered from long-time investors, most of that will go to attorney fees anyway. If Madoff did not maintain good recordkeeping which seems to be the case, there will be very little chance to recover much from the long-time investors. The real battle will not be between Madoff and his investors. Rather, it will be between the investors themselves! That will be the ultimate tragedy.

By: Ian, Wilmington, DE

Ian, Wilmington, DE — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:47:24 +0000

He got paid to be the fall guy for even bigger crooks behind the scenes. He had his sons turn him in hoping to have them avoid the wrath that will soon be his. When all is said and done he will be remembered as a terrible investor, which ironically will bother him the most. If you don’t think he had help, then why is he not sitting in jail but rather a place I can only dream of visiting? What i’ve learned is that I can screw the rest of you as hard as I want and nothing bad will happen to me and my family. I’m going to start now, does anyone want 43% yearly returns? Send me your cash, I’ll send you statements of proof…. Serious investors only please

By: Mike, Spokane, WA

Mike, Spokane, WA — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:27:23 +0000

Mark, my unqualified advice to you is to ‘run silent, run deep’. The worst thing you could do is ask the investors’ attorneys. I think you know what their answer will be. At a minimum you’ll spend a fortune in attorney fees successfully defending your gains if you bring it to their attention. Your attorney,, and theirs, will make out like champs.

By: Keit, San Jose, CA

Keit, San Jose, CA — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:15:31 +0000

Madoff certainly would have invested the money he collected in some way in order to keep the fraud going as long as possible. The earliest investors were also encouraged to keep re-investing their returns in order to bring the “fund” to a critical point where it can begin to dole out real money. As long as the scheme can keep going, Madoff and the earliest investors can withdraw more money from it. Whatever investment he made with the money, it could not last forever due to the high returns that the fund had to pay out to long-time investors, outrageous fees to co-conspirators and Madoff himself, and possible loses here and there from his gambles with the stock market and the casinos. He’s certainly one of those masters of the universe whose oversized egos need to be fed constantly, “mine is bigger than yours” life-long obsession. This Ponzi scheme surely inflated his ego to several order of magnitude without much effort and at the same time afford him a lavish lifestyle of the rich and famous. If the other masters of the universe did not spoil the loot, all of them, Madoff included, would have kept on fleecing everyone else quite a bit longer until they went out from this world, having lived a very good life indeed.

By: Mark, Minneapolis, MN

Mark, Minneapolis, MN — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:12:29 +0000

I invested with Bernie in the late 1980’s, but then (fortunately) withdrew my accumulated funds 3 years ago to complete a real estate purchase. If those weren’t my real returns, am I going to have to give some of that money back? Not an easy task, as its all in devalued real estate now………..

By: Anne, Tyler TX

Anne, Tyler TX — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:19:36 +0000

It takes some real talent to lose money consistently in the market for a straight 20-30 years. Seriously, you have to be trying to lose money if that’s the case.

By: Akiva, Chicago, IL

Akiva, Chicago, IL — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:03:04 +0000

I strongly suspect that his investments just had been losing money for years and years. A million here and there, for 20 to 30 years, adds up.

By: Anne Palmer, Tyler, TX

Anne Palmer, Tyler, TX — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:50:43 +0000

Bernie Madoff is a financial expert. Do you think he would let money that was supposed to be compounding just sit around, and then he just gradually gave it out to clients until there was nothing left? Anyone who knows anything about finance would not just let the money sit around, and at the same time give it out until there was nothing left. Only an idiot would do that. Bernie Madoff thought this out very meticulously. He did not just give it to clients as interest until there was nothing left. Being the financial expert that he is, it would not be an appropriate fit. If the shoe doesn’t fit, then ya can’t wear it, and that shoe just doesn’t fit him.

By: Bing

Bing — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:20:49 +0000

I understand it. I just think there’s a lot of money sitting around somewhere, hiding.

By: Leeroy

Leeroy — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:06:59 +0000

Much of that money never existed in the first place. It was ficitious compounded interest.

Let’s say I set up a similar scheme involving only me. I put $1mil in my scheme, and I award myself 12% interest. I take that $120k a year and spend it, never touching my principal.

Years later, the market tanks, and I try to take out that principal, only to find that it is not there because I’d been taking out $120k a year for years. I suddenly realize I’ve fooled me, and I’ve “lost” $1mil. Or spent it on scotch and hookers over the years, depending on how you see things.

That’s about how it all went down, less the commission checks for people who brought in more suckers, in Bernie’s case.